cyrano | Tell me about Cardiff

I don't think Britain has states and I understand whales may migrate but I'm fairly certain they don't immigrate.

You're a weirdo.

Google "Tiger Bay" - this may give you more answers.

Cardiff Bay was - and still is - a massive hodgepodge of mixed races and nationalities, and the fact that it's (still) so geographically small meant that people lived kind of one top of each other and socioeconomic class (i.e. money) became more of a divider than race or nationality.

There is a Cardiff Chinatown down in "The Bay" (Atlantic Wharf with its shops and shiny eateries and fancy, expensive apartment blocks is a new thing, really), and there is a big North African (can't remember exactly... think I'm thinking Somali, possibly Sudanese... eh) community there. It also has the big Mosque there.

The distinctive "Kairdiff" accent that people confuse with a Scouse (Liverpool) accent has come about for similar reasons to the Liverpool one - a mix of Welsh and Irish accents in the predominantly English-speaking population of the city... except that it's Irish and South Welsh rather than North Welsh up in Scouseland.

What else do you need to know? I have friends back home who are properly into their Cardiff history, and could probably furnish you with a lot more details. However, if you're looking to seek out the history of the immigrant population in Cardiff, the history of the Bay is going to be key. Unsurprisingly! :)

Good luck and let me know if there's anything else specific you'd like me to try to search out for you.

The big West Indian and Pakistani migrations that you're possibly thinking of to the UK didn't really happen until the 50s/ 60s, but there were plenty of others - especially eastern european and the like, earlier than that. There was a big Irish migration earlier again, because the Famine drove people away in, like, droves... :)

I figured there *must* have been, yeah. Eastern European had not even occurred to me for some reason. But it sounds like I can go pretty cosmopolitan, and not be too far off.

Oh, hell yeah. As cosmopolitan as you like - it wasn't called Tiger Bay because Tigers were common in South Wales! :)

But specifically mostly in the Bay area...

Right, I figure the bay is also largely proletariat, and as you get further inland the city goes whiter and richer.

YES.

Depending on the era, it also gets more Old Money the further north you go. Cyncoed, where my folks still live, is north-central, and used to be the Old Money, back in the day (1920s/ 30s). It was also a predominantly Jewish area (we had menulkahs on all the doors of our house in particular - almost as if the previous owners were really, really scared of something getting in...).

I'm guessing that Cyncoed, Radyr and Llandaf would have been pretty genteel (or, at least, rich) in 1920, but then when you start getting into the villages and vallyers beyond... less so...

Edited 2008-05-31 16:41 (UTC)

almost as if the previous owners were really, really scared of something getting in...

Oh excellent. Thank you. (:

I figured you'd appreciate that :) True story.

I don't know if I know enough to ask specific questions, alas. (:
This is definitely an excellent start. I'm trying to find photos or maps or something of the Cardiff area, but have had limited luck. Luckily, my gamers probably know as much about the setting as I do, so I can make shit up with impunity.

You want 1940s/ 1950s pics of Cardiff/ Britain? And a 1940s/50s map of Cardiff?

When by? And in what format?

I'd prefer a 1920 map and pictures, any time in the next couple of weeks, and jpg or pdf are probably the happiest formats.
You are so cool. (:
(http://torchwood_1920.livejournal.com)

In the meantime, I hope these will be helpful:

http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/cardiff-bay-docks.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/sites/familyhistory/pages/butetown_moniqueennis.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/walesonair/database/tamed.shtml

I think this one is going to be particularly useful for background, if you've time to go through it all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/black_history/pages/tiger_bay.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/sites/history/pages/slavery_capeverde.shtml

http://www.bhac.org/index.html this lot might have something

http://www.glamro.gov.uk/ this lot have what you’re looking for, but you need to contact them!

http://www.oldukphotos.com/glamorgan_cardiff.htm Jackpot of old photos

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/webguide/pages/local_history.shtml some useful links (where I found some of the above!)

Captain Morgan! http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southeast/halloffame/historical_figures/henry_morgan.shtml

Rather than bombard you with more, I’ll leave it there for the minute. I’m heading home for a family visit next weekend, so I’ll see what I can dig up. May be a good excuse to drag my li’l sister to visit what we call a LIBRARY...

P.S. Oooooh, now I'm wishing I did online roleplay, because that looks FUN! :D

Alas, that's just the online home for a table top campaign. And I really hope it turns out to be fun.
You're going to keep me busy. (:

Wicked - hope it's incredibly fab and likewise groovy! :)

Also another link, which I'm enjoying at the moment: http://www.cardiffians.co.uk/timeline.html

Even has mysterious disappearances and stuff in it...

I don't know if you've had a look at torchwood_1920 yet, but if you stop by I welcome your comments there. (:

Ello!

Spent a fair amount of the Saturday before last searching through books and maps in the Local section of the local big bookstore in central Cardiff (it turns out the Library has moved - the building being demolished - and my dad doesn't know where it went...), and found:

{le sigh} Lots of (overpriced) books of photos of Old Cardiff (and plenty of the era you were after), but no maps of the era. The closest I found was these ones:

http://www.cassinimaps.co.uk/shop/product.asp?P_ID=454

and

http://www.cassinimaps.co.uk/shop/product.asp?P_ID=622

Neither of which, on close-up, real life inspection in the shop (whence I got the main URL) seemed to give proper streetmap-level detail. They were pretty and all, but I didn't feel confident enough that they were going to be useful to you.

I'll keep searching in the meantime, but that's the closest I've got so far (apart from the Government site I mentioned before).

I'll go look at

torchwood_1920 now... :)

A S. Wales friend sent me a link and when I probed it more thoroughly I immediately thought of you:

http://www.bakerlite.co.uk/old_cardiff.htm

Hope that's of use to you!

How's the campaign going, anyway?

I'm pretty pleased. We're about half way through the first season. I'm not sure how coherent it is for people not in the campaign, but stop by torchwood_1920.livejournal.com
We've managed to maintain that adversarial nature that produces dramatic tension, and they're working together as a team now. (Last episode they managed to take out a Cyberman.)

One of the things I'm trying to find out is--what used to be where the Roald Dahl Plass is now? Was it just a working dock, or was it still a plaza and gathering point?

OMG, they renamed the Oval Basin! How did I miss that?!

It's near the Coal Exchange and the old City Hall, isn't it? I'd've thought it was a working dock, but I don't know for sure. I'll go dig out my father's old maps and try looking in the Central Library for older ones next weekend.

You've (inadvertently) set me a research project and that makes me inordinately pleased - thank you! There are maps involved too - yay! XD

Aha! Well, if you trust Wikipedia, this entry says, among other things, that:

"Formerly named the Oval Basin, the area was one of the docks for a thriving coal port during the latter half the 19th century and much of the 20th century. Following World War II, the plaza entered a period of decay and dereliction until the 1980s, when the Cardiff Bay area was regenerated."

So there we have it. There's also a historical bit later. Hope that's a help!

Okay, I read that, and that was part of what was confusing me. They say it was a dock for a coal port for much of the 20th century, and then sometime between then and 'following World War II' it became a plaza.
I may be misunderstanding the use of the term 'plaza', of course.

Hah. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2125925.stm
Cardiff's Oval Basin served as a lock at the city's historic docks until it was filled in during the 1960s to stabilise its walls.

Wales is where my father's people come from, if I am not mistaken. And there is Cardiff-by-the-sea here that is just lovely.

Just thought I would tell you that.

xoxoxoxo

I suppose that explains what drew you to San Diego. (:

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